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Thoughts on Injustice

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101 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 12:35 pm

Loogie

avatar
Going wild
@ Edge and Ruby
I think you guys should just play each other and try these stuff out. the matchup specifics. i'm sure Ruby will do the test as well and you can agree on an outcome then.
No need to offend each other.

@ Edge
I know Ruby for 3 years now, and personaly too, he is not how he seems to alot of people on the forum and in the clan. he can be misunderstood, i know that he wants to help. sometimes, it might come out too critical and not constructive enough. but he would want to be constructive...

@Ruby
You are a TYM resident, and a dojo regular. we know you know, however you have to consider showing your views in other ways then writing back a reply to a post. I would offer Edge a few sets with DD vs KF to go over his frustrations.
Remember, alot of us aren't too keen on Injustice and trying to give it as much a chance as possible till MK10. and we dont have access to the dojo either.
We do value your inputs, but pretty it up sometimes and consider aiding fellow members in alternative ways (online sets for example).


Can we agree now on settling this matter in a calm collected manner?

Thanks

102 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 1:08 pm

Dictator

avatar
Wild Ape
FlawlessEdge- wrote:
Dictator wrote:
FlawlessEdge- wrote:Dude this is what bothers me. I'm so sick of your general attitude. You think you know so much more than you do. That's not the problem though. The problem is you waltz around telling everyone they're wrong and to "do this" and "don't do that", with an underlying tone that makes people feel stupid for trying out their own shit, or relaying their individual experiences to help someone. You're a smart guy, with a good heart but you were never cut out to be leader because you don't know people, or how we work. Yeah you're good, and yeah you know about FGs, but you're too used to being right. You come along with your experience and knowledge and shit on everyone else's. People resented you for this dude and BoP failed because of all of it. This time you're not right, I recommend you quit making assumptions (the #1 being you always know best) and go back to training with KF and DD and look for ways that you could be wrong.

I know what I say is true because we have mains in the dojo for both KF and Doomsday and they happen to be players who have travelled tofrance/italy/london/boulgaria and other places to compete in tournaments. What I say about Injustice at least, comes from 99% offline experience.


There's no underlying tone, if you make a comment in a matter that I know why isn't working out for you then I'll point that shit out and that will never change. Yeah, I forgot about you specifically not wanting advice, my bad. Doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way or that there is an imaginary tone in it just because you don't want it ( which I already apologised for ). I know exactly how I word my shit because I do that on TYM as a mod. If I wanna insult someone they'll know it.

BoP didn't fail because of one person and that's a heavy accusation to make. But if this is what you or someone else as well thinks then I'll happily step aside for good from this site once I get on XBL.

My game is a lie then.. My training mode is bullshit. I want my money back.

My point exactly.. "I know I'm right".. lol. What you know about InJ is 99% second-hand information which has it's value, but ain't worth a damn until proved to yourself by your own experience. I wanted you to have to consider you might be wrong and to investigate that, but if you really need a script to follow, I'll write one for you. Go to training with KF and DD, activate 2 controllers and have DD D1 from the closest range and return to neutral stand, then try D1ing back with KF. Then try D1 D1 with DD and try to counterpoke with KF between it. Then try d1 sweep, and poke between. Try d1 > any normal and try to poke between it with KF. Then when you've done this, adjust the spacing slightly, rinse and repeat. I'm not gonna give you the results, you'll have to check them yourself. I already did the thinking for you.

You twist my point too and fail to realise people don't respond to dictation out of ANYTHING but fear or self-devaluation. We talked about egos and about being conscious of it being what's important, so get conscious dude. Its not about me or any specific situation, its about you, your attitude and approach towards people. Look at the results around you.. practically everyone wants to be away from you because you're so disrespectful. Twice you've had the wheel and twice everyone has abandoned ship.

The only people who respond to your methods are those that are already used to being ruled by an iron fist, who have been taught to bend to, and respect authority like there is such a damned thing.

You're like a robot dude. Calculations and numbers run your behaviour, and those numbers calculated there was no room for compassion. It's either black or its white, right? Like I said, you know FGs better than anyone else I know, but not 'cause you say you do, or you're the "authority" on the subject. It's because my first-hand experience has told me that. You think you know people, you think being harsh with them, putting them down or steam-rolling their opinions is gonna make people look up to you, come to you for advice and respect your knowledge and you're character? WTF are they teaching in Psych these days? odatsright, linear thought progression and imitation/regurgitation of whatever the hell they put in front of you.

Quit being a sponge, you're not a kid anymore so there's no excuse for it. Think for yourself and question everything (including everything I have said, because I could be even more wrong) and stop assuming people know things. They don't, they only believe they know things. Having knowledge is not the same as having wisdom. Wisdom is how you interpret and apply the knowledge.

I learnt so much from you, but only because I'm adept at cutting out the bullshit of how it's presented and using the raw information to conduct my own experiments and arrive at my own conclusions. I raged sometimes, blamed some things on lag when I thought they were, but I always tested it once I calmed down. You havn't been teaching people how to learn, you give them good information dressed up as inflexible, rigid instruction, mental domination by asserting your knowledge (authority) for ego purposes. You and I both see this and we both know its learned behaviour. The effects of this can be extremely harmful to people with certain complexes, and you're effectively dumbing people down with this left-brain philosophy. You said it yourself, "I annoy everyone" like it's humourous to you or something. There's an important reason for this, and I think it's because people either consciously or unconconsciously reject your methods because they stand for restriction and conformity. This goes against the nature of life which craves freedom, and open-ness. I really hope you can give this an open mind and consider what I have said. I like you, you're a good person. I want you to stick around and be friends with everyone, but not if you're not willing to atleast discuss (here or privately) the issues I have raised. This shit is real bro, and it's gonna affect you for the rest of your life.

I know this shit is long and deep (I sound like a nerd o_o, I promise you i'm not lol), but ultimately, it don't make a shred of difference to me what you do. Changes are coming. Whether you split from us all or not is your call dude.
I did check the ranges of D1, DDs D1 leaves KF out of D1 range even if he tries it again because of the pushback and because of the hitboxes of both D1s. Doomsday is at a great advantage here because of the pushback and the - frames of his D1 on block, if KF throws out her own D1 to counterpoke him, her D1 is already short as hell it also has to deal with distance and - frames which by the time doomsday pokes back have eaten up all of her active frames.

I did read what you said carefully and with an open mind. Some points I think stand true like the inflexible advice but the rest is ill informed theories ( one of many e.g conformity )and exactly the reason why psychologists have multiple sessions in person and a degree before coming to a conclusion ( "Hypothesis" ). I won't respond to that any further because I think it's devaluing and aggressive to make such assumptions and take a game related discussion in a gaming forum to a personal level like that.

@Loog Instead of having the dojo you have me, that's why I give advice if I see anyone struggling. I have posted over 3 threads expanding my advice to TYM threads, one of which I specifically wrote just for BoP and decided to post in TYM, when noone read any of those or the remark was the same as if I gave my normal advice then I'll stick to the advice. I do play everyone I can from this clan and in general if they struggle or not with learning the game, ask anyone around if they haven't received an invite whenever I'm on and they're free. I was even helping GRs when they had problems learning how MK9s mechanics work.

103 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 6:54 pm

GRs_Prince


U really guyz should make this private
Ps ruby we all know ur bitch
Mad ? XD

104 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 6:58 pm

GRs_Prince


Let me say something too
Qwark way 2 help people sometimes is stupid yeah but he do that for help and when u know him hes good i used 2 have prob with him not anymore hes a cool gay

105 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 7:02 pm

Shadow

avatar
Wild Ape
Private? I'm sure the original plan for this thread was for anyone to discuss their thoughts on the game. Sadly, it turned in to how most threads do on here, either a discussion about the clan's situation or a discussion between two people that is irrelevant to the original post. If Edge and Ruby have a problem, they either need to sort it through PM's, or create a thread JUST for that matter.

This shouldn't be a private thread, it's some of the posts in here that should have been private.

106 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 7:04 pm

GRs_Prince


Shadow wrote:Private? I'm sure the original plan for this thread was for anyone to discuss their thoughts on the game. Sadly, it turned in to how most threads do on here, either a discussion about the clan's situation or a discussion between two people that is irrelevant to the original post. If Edge and Ruby have a problem, they either need to sort it through PM's, or create a thread JUST for that matter.

This shouldn't be a private thread, it's some of the posts in here that should have been private.
Nah i prefer seeing them talking here
Come shadow get ur popcorn and lets read
Its fun

107 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 8:41 pm

Edge

avatar
Regarding the FD, I did the exact test I described and got very different results. That's all i'm going to say on the subject because at this point, I don't even care about that.

I know the time and place was bad, and I'm sorry for that. Ruby please know I'm not trying to attack you personally, even if it seems that way. Gotta admit I don't care whether the thread stays on topic or not, it's pretty irrelevant considering the state the clan is in, and though I was a little harsh in what I said, I still think it needed to be said. I covered practically every issue that most of us have had with him. No-one else has been willing to stand up and say this shit even though most of us have thought it at some point.

BoP is over as far as I'm concerned. I'm out whether Loog keeps it going or not. Ruby is either going to stay friends with us, and be a part of this if we start new, or he's going to go to XBL and will probably just stop by once in a while, if ever, and it won't make a shred of difference what I said, or who saw it. If he is going to stay, and be a part of this, what I said is going to have to be discussed inevitably anyway, so I just got it out there.

Ruby, I was angry the way you callously disregarded everyone in BoP. It sucks that we had to find out BoP was over from a random applicant. When I asked you why you didn't tell us, you said there was no clan to tell. That did it for me, and when I saw you saying all that shit you were saying, and KNOWING you were wrong about not counter-poking DD having tested her d1 vs him for half hour just the day before, I decided I had nothing to lose by saying what I said. I still feel I have nothing to lose by saying any more, so i'm going to continue to address this subject.

When I said private, I meant send the thread to BoP discussion. There's no harm in the clan seeing what I said, just don't want random guests nosing around our business.

Ruby, we can discuss this here, or in private messaging, or not at all. Its your call. Hell, I'd even talk to you in voice chat if you wanted to. If you wanna drop this, then I will say no more, and let you and it go.

108 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 9:53 pm

Loogie

avatar
Going wild
Can someone please either clean up the thread or put these in a new thread??

109 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 9:59 pm

Shadow

avatar
Wild Ape
@Loogie - How come you aren't admin?

110 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 10:04 pm

Loogie

avatar
Going wild
Need the rights

111 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 15, 2013 10:22 pm

Dictator

avatar
Wild Ape
Edge wrote:Regarding the FD, I did the exact test I described and got very different results. That's all i'm going to say on the subject because at this point, I don't even care about that.

I know the time and place was bad, and I'm sorry for that. Ruby please know I'm not trying to attack you personally, even if it seems that way. Gotta admit I don't care whether the thread stays on topic or not, it's pretty irrelevant considering the state the clan is in, and though I was a little harsh in what I said, I still think it needed to be said. I covered practically every issue that most of us have had with him. No-one else has been willing to stand up and say this shit even though most of us have thought it at some point.

BoP is over as far as I'm concerned. I'm out whether Loog keeps it going or not. Ruby is either going to stay friends with us, and be a part of this if we start new, or he's going to go to XBL and will probably just stop by once in a while, if ever, and it won't make a shred of difference what I said, or who saw it. If he is going to stay, and be a part of this, what I said is going to have to be discussed inevitably anyway, so I just got it out there.

Ruby, I was angry the way you callously disregarded everyone in BoP. It sucks that we had to find out BoP was over from a random applicant. When I asked you why you didn't tell us, you said there was no clan to tell. That did it for me, and when I saw you saying all that shit you were saying, and KNOWING you were wrong about not counter-poking DD having tested her d1 vs him for half hour just the day before, I decided I had nothing to lose by saying what I said. I still feel I have nothing to lose by saying any more, so i'm going to continue to address this subject.

When I said private, I meant send the thread to BoP discussion. There's no harm in the clan seeing what I said, just don't want random guests nosing around our business.

Ruby, we can discuss this here, or in private messaging, or not at all. Its your call. Hell, I'd even talk to you in voice chat if you wanted to. If you wanna drop this, then I will say no more, and let you and it go.
And I'll say once more and go to practice mode for the 3rd time that point blank KFs d1 still whiffs because of distance after DDs D1 on block.

Who are these people you talk about? I only know about you and taco. Anyone else? There was Santrax once but you probably don't know of him. Sorry If I make him sound bad but at first he had no idea why zoning existed and got really angry (not exaggerating) whenever he would get zoned out, even as far as to send loog hatemail. I shit down his throat according to him for doing that. Then I saw down for over an hour explaining to him what zoning was and how it wasn't unfair or for wimps.

Whenever Santrax had a problem with me he let me know. Whenever he let me know I stayed in the chatroom, yet again for hours, talking to him and trying to understand how he felt. That happened twice and I was encouraging people to let me know if they have a problem. This even happened with taco and he told me that he had a problem with the way I give advice in the chatroom in front of everyone.

I don't know where you got that boogeyman dictatorship idea, but if anyone hasn't spoken their mind is not because of intimidation but intention. There were plenty of people to speak openly against me during all 3 periods when we had a flood of new members. And allow me to tell you I'm not the only one people hush about. People hush because of friendship, friendship is all about co-existing with your friends because you like them, even if they have their flaws. If someone feels violated by what I do then all they have to do is speak. I have told almost every member this individually because of all the general drama this clan had, not about me btw.

I don't remember ever being asked by you why I didn't tell you this clan was (is) dead. Yesterday you asked me if I was moving on to XBL, if I'm planning on selling my PS3 and why I'm leaving the clan hanging. I didn't know you were under the illusion that this clan wasn't dead, that was and still is a well spread fact even by the former leader of the clan. I will apologise though for telling it to an applicant, incase loog or anyone else wanted to take over and rebuild the clan.

What is this sentence that if I go to XBL I'll only visit once in a while and not stay friends? I specifically told you it only takes me 50 seconds tops to reconnect my PS3 back in. If anyone is left hanging about Injustice then I will reply and if anyone wants help with a matchup then I'll gladly assist even though I know my offer won't be taken.

Honestly, I don't really know what you've been writing in the last page or so if you still haven't spoken abou the main issues you think the members of this clan have with me. Speak on and I'll listen, but make it your final post because tbh I've really had it with all this hidey hidey bullshit. You and anyone else who has a problem with me want to speak up and let me know? Here's your chance. Write everything you want about any problem you have and stop lurking in the shadows saying "I'd tell him this and that" and maybe then we can work together to solve our problems. This isn't towards anyone, I'm saying this generally.

No boogeymen. Just men having a useful and honest conversation. So, what do you feel people?


112 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Thu May 16, 2013 2:40 am

Edge

avatar
Atleast you're talking. This is good. I'm gonna have to break it all down and reply to each point individually. I wanna point out that I apologised for how I started this out, and explained it wasn't meant to attack you. I've made a few things sound different to how I meant, but I will clear them up

Dictator wrote:And I'll say once more and go to practice mode for the 3rd time that point blank KFs d1 still whiffs because of distance after DDs D1 on block.

I'll go re-check tomorrow, incase I am delusional. I hope you didn't half-test this shit by just d1ing and trying to d1 him back when he'd returned to neutral.

Dictator wrote:Who are these people you talk about? I only know about you and taco. Anyone else? There was Santrax once but you probably don't know of him.


The people who have had these thoughts? I'd say the story tells itself. You complain nobody wants to get better, people aren't serious about levelling up. They say they wanna get better but aren't willing to do what it takes right? Hardly anyone played you, people didn't listen to you or follow your advice on the rare ocassions they did play you. You see it as people didn't want to get better because they weren't willing to learn, I see it as people wanted to get better, but didn't want to learn in only the way you thought was best for them to do so. Everyone wants to get better, even Emelie and she cares less about the games than all of us. I remember the cross-over punish thread I made.. it had quite an enthusiastic start to it, people were interested and then you came along and shat on everything with "don't bother, its online, only this works and that works". You killed it before we even started. I asked your advice and I got it alright. Only it wasn't advice, it was instruction again. Inflexible. Dan made a really good effort and brought us something to discuss but it was too late. Nobody was interested after you shut it down. Consequently you were right, online is bullshit and things I wanted to work on weren't viable. I wouldnt have it at the time though, saying your explanation was BS because you do it all the time. What did I get in response to that? You might aswell have said "do as I say, not as I do". Oaken hit the nail on the head when he said something along the lines of "Its different when I fight you Ruby.. I'm always conscious and I feel like im expected to perform. It don't feel like mates having casuals and it affects how I play". How many of us have felt like this? You said to me you annoy everyone, as I stated before. I can keep going dude. This is all evidence of how people feel.. It ain't like you think, people havn't all been bitching about you behind your back, all you have to do is read the story, and read the subtext of what they say.

I'm going to be straight with all of you, and this is drected at everyone reading this section. If you wanna get better at video games and fighting games especially, Ruby's way is best. Fight him often, and repetetively, learn the numbers, and do what he says, how he says it. If you are serious about just levelling up and getting better, this is the best and fastest way to do it. If you want to learn how to improve your own ability to teach yourself in general and move forward at your own pace, where the people who have more experience to guide you can help you to see the answers yourself instead of giving them to you to, then my way is better.

The main difference, Ruby? Your way breeds armies, my way breeds free-thinking, intelligent people. Oh they won't be as good at video games, but they'll be happier and less dependent on someone else to make them strong.

Dictator wrote:I don't know where you got that boogeyman dictatorship idea

You really can't see it? I think I made a pretty good case for it above.

Dictator wrote:but if anyone hasn't spoken their mind is not because of intimidation but intention. There were plenty of people to speak openly against me during all 3 periods when we had a flood of new members. And allow me to tell you I'm not the only one people hush about. People hush because of friendship, friendship is all about co-existing with your friends because you like them, even if they have their flaws. If someone feels violated by what I do then all they have to do is speak. I have told almost every member this individually because of all the general drama this clan had, not about me btw.

Far be it from me to speak directly for anyone else but I see that most didn't speak up because of the status-quo. They didn't feel it was worth upsetting it because of how confrontational and defensive you can be, but tensions build over time until BAM, everything gets blown out of proportion. I doubt anyone thought it would be worth the drama, but I do. If you wanna preserve friendship, truth and integrity do that. Not bottled up feelings. People don't rock the boat over little things, and some people can feel like they're the one with the problem for feeling like they do about the little things, but that's how they build up. There's a million reasons to not speak up, only a few to do so. Its things like trust and respect that preserve friendship. I would hope any friend of mine would disagree with me and challenge me on anything if he felt I was wrong, and I would hope he would respect the fact that he could be just as wrong as he thinks I am..

Dictator wrote:I don't remember ever being asked by you why I didn't tell you this clan was (is) dead. Yesterday you asked me if I was moving on to XBL, if I'm planning on selling my PS3 and why I'm leaving the clan hanging.

You're right, I didn't directly ask you about the clan being dead. I meant to, but I took your leaving for XBL to be the reason why the clan was dead, and your answer to why you didn't announce your leaving to be the reason you didn't announce the clan's official death.

Dictator wrote:I didn't know you were under the illusion that this clan wasn't dead, that was and still is a well spread fact even by the former leader of the clan. I will apologise though for telling it to an applicant, incase loog or anyone else wanted to take over and rebuild the clan.

The logic here just eludes me. You said you intended to pick the clan back up. You started to with that thread and those people you sent here. Reflections and I mentioned about a whole clan reboot and you IGNORED us. Loog had no idea BoP was dead either.. We were all waiting for you, but you didn't think we even deserved to KNOW? Its clear none of us knew, so idk whats up with that "under the illusion" statement.

Dictator wrote:What is this sentence that if I go to XBL I'll only visit once in a while and not stay friends? I specifically told you it only takes me 50 seconds tops to reconnect my PS3 back in. If anyone is left hanging about Injustice then I will reply and if anyone wants help with a matchup then I'll gladly assist even though I know my offer won't be taken.

Again, it ain't like that dude. I meant that if you're gonna be a part of whatever it is we build, you're gonna have to fall in line with our value-system. Mike already said he's only in if the prime focus is us as a group, the relationships first and foremost. Tom and I also share this ideal, and I think its safe to say Matt and Kev do too. You're welcome to drop by as a guest anytime but I can see we will all drift apart from you gradually as you integrate into XBL and we go our seperate way with what we do.

With regards to playing you, if you think no-one will want to fight you, that only strengthens my main point. It's not because we can't hack losing over and over. In fact, when you stopped giving me voluntary advice, and we played, I gradually loosened up, and felt more at ease. When we played MK on mics I had a great time and we had a good laugh. It felt like casuals for the first time.

Dictator wrote:Honestly, I don't really know what you've been writing in the last page or so if you still haven't spoken abou the main issues you think the members of this clan have with me. Speak on and I'll listen, but make it your final post because tbh I've really had it with all this hidey hidey bullshit. You and anyone else who has a problem with me want to speak up and let me know? Here's your chance. Write everything you want about any problem you have and stop lurking in the shadows saying "I'd tell him this and that" and maybe then we can work together to solve our problems. This isn't towards anyone, I'm saying this generally.

No boogeymen. Just men having a useful and honest conversation. So, what do you feel people?

Again, I have to say it ain't like that dude. No one is out to get you and we this isn't about anyone but you. Inviting everyone to come dump all the problems they have with you, on you, isn't going to solve anything. This isn't (or shouldn't be) about confrontation, or attacking/defending positions. The problems are not all the seperate incidents, the problem is how your values align with ours. I wanna discuss it, see if you can't see what I see, and whether your friendship with everyone here is more important to you than being good at games and winiing. Everyone can see you have good intentions, but I think your methods work against those intentions.

I'll finish by inviting anyone to speak up if they want to agree or disagree with anything I've said, or how I've represented the general feelings of people.

113 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Thu May 16, 2013 9:33 am

Edge

avatar
Just tested. Dunno what you're playing dude but my version of InJ let's me counterpoke just fine. Don't even have to be at closest range. If you slide yourself into his block, tap back to get the minimum walk-back, d1 a crouching KF, leave DD in neutral crouch and d1 back without adjusting the spacing, it connects. The ONLY way I can get it to whiff is if he stands there and presses no buttons. He tries to poke again, he gets beat, he tries to sweep, beat. Standing normal? Beat.

Now tell me you did the same tests and got different results.

114 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Thu May 16, 2013 9:56 am

Dictator

avatar
Wild Ape
Edge wrote:I'll go re-check tomorrow, incase I am delusional. I hope you didn't half-test this shit by just d1ing and trying to d1 him back when he'd returned to neutral.
Actually, that's exactly what I did... I tested the first time whether the D1s being done at the same time after DDs D1 on block would trade and they didn't. DDs won.


The people who have had these thoughts? I'd say the story tells itself. You complain nobody wants to get better, people aren't serious about levelling up. They say they wanna get better but aren't willing to do what it takes right? Hardly anyone played you, people didn't listen to you or follow your advice on the rare ocassions they did play you. You see it as people didn't want to get better because they weren't willing to learn, I see it as people wanted to get better, but didn't want to learn in only the way you thought was best for them to do so. Everyone wants to get better, even Emelie and she cares less about the games than all of us.
We talked about this specifically when we had the mic session, I didn't care anymore after that and accepted some might not want to hear my advice or are playing casually for fun.


I remember the cross-over punish thread I made.. it had quite an enthusiastic start to it, people were interested and then you came along and shat on everything with "don't bother, its online, only this works and that works". You killed it before we even started. I asked your advice and I got it alright. Only it wasn't advice, it was instruction again. Inflexible. Dan made a really good effort and brought us something to discuss but it was too late. Nobody was interested after you shut it down. Consequently you were right, online is bullshit and things I wanted to work on weren't viable. I wouldnt have it at the time though, saying your explanation was BS because you do it all the time. What did I get in response to that? You might aswell have said "do as I say, not as I do".
And I didn't say just not to try it. I said if you wanted to try it then here's how, just don't bother thinking it'll work online and I myself consider it stupid and go for it and that's because I like it as a habit to keep offline. Both I and Suomi can tell you that trying to prevent crossups has brought more frustration than success (if any).

Oaken hit the nail on the head when he said something along the lines of "Its different when I fight you Ruby.. I'm always conscious and I feel like im expected to perform. It don't feel like mates having casuals and it affects how I play". How many of us have felt like this? You said to me you annoy everyone, as I stated before. I can keep going dude. This is all evidence of how people feel.. It ain't like you think, people havn't all been bitching about you behind your back, all you have to do is read the story, and read the subtext of what they say.
And I told him that it's never a performance and that I just give out advice everytime because that's what I wanted everytime I played UFG when I didn't know anything. Everytime I'd play him in casuals for hours and in the end I'd ask for advice. This is how my advice giving was born, I figured I'd save people the trouble of actually continually needing to look out if this one guy would bother playing them or offering advice afterwards.

I'm going to be straight with all of you, and this is drected at everyone reading this section. If you wanna get better at video games and fighting games especially, Ruby's way is best. Fight him often, and repetetively, learn the numbers, and do what he says, how he says it. If you are serious about just levelling up and getting better, this is the best and fastest way to do it. If you want to learn how to improve your own ability to teach yourself in general and move forward at your own pace, where the people who have more experience to guide you can help you to see the answers yourself instead of giving them to you to, then my way is better.The main difference, Ruby? Your way breeds armies, my way breeds free-thinking, intelligent people. Oh they won't be as good at video games, but they'll be happier and less dependent on someone else to make them strong.
Again, I'm not setting up any kind of boundaries, when people ask me something or wonder about something I tell them what

A) I would do in that situation
B) Safest/most damaging way to get something done

The fact I don't mention all the ways to get to point B is all about people also discovering what they can do, otherwise everyone I played for some time would be robots. There is no such thing as 'breeding armies". You can't go autopilot or follow a strict set of quotes that you've been taught. The whole point of fighting games is to pit a mind against another, a prerequisite being that both minds actually think for themselves and not follow a standard behavioral pattern without deviation. Advice is always a pointer and not an end itself. There is NO advice in fighting games that will work 100% of the time and that is VERY obvious considering that everything is punishable.


Far be it from me to speak directly for anyone else but I see that most didn't speak up because of the status-quo. They didn't feel it was worth upsetting it because of how confrontational and defensive you can be, but tensions build over time until BAM, everything gets blown out of proportion. I doubt anyone thought it would be worth the drama, but I do. If you wanna preserve friendship, truth and integrity do that. Not bottled up feelings. People don't rock the boat over little things, and some people can feel like they're the one with the problem for feeling like they do about the little things, but that's how they build up. There's a million reasons to not speak up, only a few to do so. Its things like trust and respect that preserve friendship. I would hope any friend of mine would disagree with me and challenge me on anything if he felt I was wrong, and I would hope he would respect the fact that he could be just as wrong as he thinks I am..
As you can understand from my previous post, that assumption was wrong. There has never been a time in this clan where I've chosen myself first when a clanmember had an issue. Every time I handled such a situation I made sure I set an example out of them, that we're all equals and if they have a problem they better damn well speak up and not expect everyone to play detective.



You're right, I didn't directly ask you about the clan being dead. I meant to, but I took your leaving for XBL to be the reason why the clan was dead, and your answer to why you didn't announce your leaving to be the reason you didn't announce the clan's official death.
I'm not "leaving" for XBL. I came here and said I have no time for this clan. Going to XBL doesn't mean abandonment of friends.


The logic here just eludes me. You said you intended to pick the clan back up. You started to with that thread and those people you sent here. Reflections and I mentioned about a whole clan reboot and you IGNORED us. Loog had no idea BoP was dead either.. We were all waiting for you, but you didn't think we even deserved to KNOW? Its clear none of us knew, so idk whats up with that "under the illusion" statement.
I did not see any clan reboot thread, the past 10 threads mention nothing. I had talked to Loog on FB personally. I thought you did as well but I was obviously mistaken, I'm definately at fault here and I apologise.


Again, it ain't like that dude. I meant that if you're gonna be a part of whatever it is we build, you're gonna have to fall in line with our value-system. Mike already said he's only in if the prime focus is us as a group, the relationships first and foremost. Tom and I also share this ideal, and I think its safe to say Matt and Kev do too. You're welcome to drop by as a guest anytime but I can see we will all drift apart from you gradually as you integrate into XBL and we go our seperate way with what we do.
Have no intention to drift away and I believe the prime reason for any group after being together for some time is friendship first.

[/quote]With regards to playing you, if you think no-one will want to fight you, that only strengthens my main point. It's not because we can't hack losing over and over. In fact, when you stopped giving me voluntary advice, and we played, I gradually loosened up, and felt more at ease. When we played MK on mics I had a great time and we had a good laugh. It felt like casuals for the first time.[quote] Agreed. I didn't think people wanted me to stop giving advice everytime because I did view it as casuals and I just added a tip or two, just like it happens offline when I lose to someone for a prolonged period.



Again, I have to say it ain't like that dude. No one is out to get you and we this isn't about anyone but you. Inviting everyone to come dump all the problems they have with you, on you, isn't going to solve anything. This isn't (or shouldn't be) about confrontation, or attacking/defending positions. The problems are not all the seperate incidents, the problem is how your values align with ours. I wanna discuss it, see if you can't see what I see, and whether your friendship with everyone here is more important to you than being good at games and winiing. Everyone can see you have good intentions, but I think your methods work against those intentions.
I'm not talking about separate incidents. I'll just leave it at that and let it go. You haven't been here long enough to notice or maybe I'm just biased from the clan's habitual history. Anyone who values winning above friends is an idiot and should be treated as such. I never made a statement like that and my goal is not to win all day everyday.

115 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Thu May 16, 2013 9:57 am

Dictator

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Wild Ape
Edge wrote:Just tested. Dunno what you're playing dude but my version of InJ let's me counterpoke just fine. Don't even have to be at closest range. If you slide yourself into his block, tap back to get the minimum walk-back, d1 a crouching KF, leave DD in neutral crouch and d1 back without adjusting the spacing, it connects. The ONLY way I can get it to whiff is if he stands there and presses no buttons. He tries to poke again, he gets beat, he tries to sweep, beat. Standing normal? Beat.

Now tell me you did the same tests and got different results.
The original point I was replying to about that was double D1s from doomsday while you couldn't D1 in between, not sure where the slide, sweep and normal came from.

116 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Thu May 16, 2013 12:47 pm

Edge

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All this time I have been communicating an underlying principle, and that is your attitude, approach towards people and the way your ego manifests itself. You challenged this by asking for specific examples to back up my point, I provided them and all you've done is tried to justify the intention behind every specific example and have not addressed the underlying principle. Like I said, we all know your intention is good, but your methods are the problem.

You base the way you act towards others on how you learned to learn, and you figure you'll cut out the bullshit by just telling them what they need to do to improve REGARDLESS of whether they ask for it. You're so wrapped up in logic, numbers, and linear thinking patterns that you don't even notice or factor in how people feel in the way you relate to them.

I'm going to use a specific example to make an underlying point. I remember you saying if you saw a fatty down the gym, you'd respect him for doing something about it. If you saw one chasing a donut you'd be harsh and cruel. It's math for you, not a compassionate attempt at understanding. You think he's fat because he's lazy and doesn't CHOOSE to do what it takes if he wants to lose weight, but that's because you don't know what governs choice. Most people here were the fatty chasing the donut in your view. Environment and peer programming govern the unconscious mind, and in order to break behavioural patterns it takes alot of conscious work. 95% of peoples' minds are unconscious. Only 5% is actually used by will. In effect, the choice is made by the sub-conscious, and your cruelty and attitude towards that poor boy only serves to teach him to de-value himself, which destroys confidence and will-power, which leads to him repeating the patterns and perpetuating the cycle. I can spam this thread with videos and text excerpts by people talking about the relationships between environment, mind, emotion and general brain-language programming to back up everything I just said, if you disagree or need convincing.

I don't want to talk about the symptoms of the problem, which manifest themselves as the various specific events that we have both used as examples, I want to talk about the problem that spawns all this, and that is, and has always been the way you relate to people, since my first post on this subject. Read between the lines man, and look deeper.

Now, this don't even have to be your problem bro, you can walk away anytime. I'm not gonna waste time addressing symptoms though if you do wanna get to the root of this. I'll say it again, I want you around because your intentions are good and you do have the best information. I wanna learn from you but if you wanna stick around and teach, we're going to have to agree on the methods. That doesn't mean you just sugar-coating everything you say whilst inwardly resenting that you have to follow this stupid rule, it means openly seeing the other side of the fence and heartfully believing in the ideals we follow. Yours is only ONE WAY to teach, and it has MANY more harmful effects than positive ones.

Teaching is about building a bond of respect between the student and the guide. You can't employ one method for everyone and say the ones doing it right are the responsive, and the ones doing it wrong are the non-responsive. There are many different ways to learn. Some people have learned to process information more linearly, and those that grew up with a restrictive environment, believing in rules and limits learn to restrict their own mind and views. They will be more responsive to your methods as they don't see or FEEL a problem with it. It's how they learned to learn and more often than not, they have no other frame of reference within their own experience field to compare it to, so its just 'normal' to them, or they see it as just the way things work. Others that are more independent, creative and explorative will not respond to your methods because they either consciously or unconsciously reject restriction and inflexibility. These are just 2, basic and narrow examples of the diversity of Human complexes Everyone is different and it's the teacher's job to adapt his mind and methods to each individual student, and NEVER EVER put them down. You have to be conscious of what you say, and how you say it, but this only comes after you become conscious of the attitude and value-system you've unconsciously subscribed to that spawns your harsh and rigid behavior. A teacher will not be successful if he fails to realise his students have the potential to teach him just as much as he teaches them.

I've put my life on hold for a few days for a chance at finding some middle-ground here, as a place to move forward. This takes me an extremely long time on PS3 browser, not to mention how much thought i'm putting in. I feel like I'm wasting my time. I feel like you see it like "How dare he question my character, its none of his business, if people don't want my advice in the way I choose to give it, thats their problem. I wont give it at all". While this is fundamentally true, regardless of whether it even crossed your mind or not, I remind you that the purpose of this is to establish whether its possible for you to work together with us in what's going on in the other thread, or not. If you have no desire to be a valuable core member then we should end this now.

Oh one more thing about the status-quo. I want to point out the futility of speaking to someone about a problem when they know the response will be unbending and inflexible. Talking doesn't solve problems, action does. Taco and co. wouldn't even discuss things after everything blew up. Correct me if I'm wrong guys but it's clear to me they knew talking was pointless and you wouldn't change, so they did the only thing anyone can do in this situation which was to leave saying as little as possible, so to avoid any more meaningless drama. Everyone had their digs at you at some point when they felt too strongly to hold it in, but the biggest reason people don't speak their mind is that believe it won't make a difference. I know the only ways this can end are with you seeing what I say to make sense, and wanting to change yourself for YOU, 'cause this is the only way this is gonna work, or you just dropping by every now and then, same old Ruby with his trolling and attitude. This ain't a conscious decision to make dude. You either see what I say to make sense and realise you're wrong on this, make a change because you heartfully want to. Or you see what I say to have no place in reality and any subsequent communication is meaningless because we're living in different worlds.

117 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Thu May 16, 2013 2:14 pm

Loogie

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Going wild
@ Edge, i can see that you are going a little far with your analysis of Ruby's character. this borders rude, and offensive at many levels... and after realizing this (in your earlier posts) you edited and reposted making it less 'harsh'. so you know you are going overboard with some of your thoughts here buddy.
dude, how do you get the energy to write these posts? Jesus, its a videogame, its online, alot of us haven't even met each other in person. we are sitting behind screens and analyzing each other? seriously?

i can psycho-analyze each and everyone of you, you could that to me too... but through online posts? related to a videogame? played online? so you guys haven't even met in person.

the fatty down the gym was something you guys talked about in confidence, you can't repost that as an example. it's not right. you took humor and made Ruby look like a prick.

i really wanted this discussion to come to an end, and the olive branch was there for you (both) to take but doesnt seem to be happening.

I'd like this to end, please take the discussion in private psn, chat, pm-ing or whatever. and i hope you can patch things up.

118 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Thu May 16, 2013 5:01 pm

Dictator

avatar
Wild Ape
Honestly, I already said that you taking this too personal was a mistake yet you keep doing it. On that matter all I'm gonna say is that you need to get some education on where psychology applies and how theories are conducted and maybe then you can see why your examples are not even remotely close to being comparison matterial. Maybe that is why general education videos on psychology that are randomly found on youtube don't suddenly make people psychologists when even they are forced to admit that what they think is nothing more than an educated guess.

I'm tired of this going back and forth, me admitting to some mistakes only for you not to reply to my points at all once I've done so and start yet another paragraph with what you think needs adjusting.

Expect no answer to a reply that you specifically have been told even if you should know by yourself that is most disrespecting and not just because of the analysis itself. I'll let you figure out why and it has absolutely nothing to do with me.

I can see you're a good guy but you gotta know when you're wrong. I don't mind even if I'm very offended at your post and not because it involves me. I'll let you know why if you want in private but I expected you especially to know better.

119 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Fri May 17, 2013 11:47 am

Edge

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This will be my last post on the subject, don't worry.

Trust me, being rude and offensive was never one of my concerns regarding Ruby. True I edited one or two posts, adding a paragraph here and there but I never intended to tone it down. If it came accross that way its purely coincidence, but this is irrelevant anyway. Another way to distract from the only real point I've been making here.

The fatty at the gym post was a public thread. The SPECIFICS are not important. It's the warped and fucked up mind-set that spawned it. Harsh? Oh well. Time to get real. I don't want this poisonous mentality spreading through anything new. I knew I was opening a can of worms when I decided to go through with that first post, and I didn't make that decision lightly. Here we are and we still havn't talked about anything real, despite my attempts. The problem is people are too busy reading what is said instead of looking at what's been happening. Then you talk about what's said, not what's happening. I then use what is said to show you what's happening and even tell you that this is what it's about, and again, you talk about what's said. This is why I don't reply to your points, but to you wholly and it's never in relation to your points because yours aren't in relation to mine. They're subtle deflections and you're turning it around and trying to get me to defend, like you're jousting with someone, as if there's something to be won. All you're saying is my examples aren't valid, giving your reasoning why, and expect me to battle with you over whose is right? No, I move back to the real point using different examples to take it away from a potential tangent. You say so much, but your actions contradict your words in my view. That means one of us has got things back to front, it doesn't matter who anymore. The real point is valid regardless of the examples we use. If you disagreed with that you should've said when I mentioned to, to save us alot of time because we'd both have known neither would budge.

Sorry to sound blunt Loog, but fuck switching to PM or dif thread now. You have all had a chance to make this private, whether it be moving it or Ruby switching to PM. I already apologised and said it was wrong of me to start this here, and gave suggestions about what we can do. That might not make amends but it's all I can do. What else can you do? Create a private thread and move all relevant posts there or something? Not that it matters now.

This was never ever going to work. I knew that, but I posted anyway. My methods were very wrong. I fucked up. I could have handled this a million times better. I should've not reacted to the post, and started this in PM under a calmer mentality like I originally wanted to. I was confrontational, and immediately put you on the defense. That has been the basis for this whole convo since then and I'd failed from the start. I saw it straight away, but it was too late to do anything about it. I know my mistakes. I'm sorry to everyone for the way this has gone.

Laying it all out here. Ruby, I have a problem with you. This is not your problem but mine. I havn't spoken to you about it because I was able to deal with it by understanding and accepting it for myself on a personal level. I was an outsider, and was using you, and BoP to get better. I got involved, made friends etc, but I knew that I could just walk away anytime I like and leave you all to w/e and it wouldn't matter. But I saw the way people were becoming, and the way things were going with you, so I got out because I was starting to care about other people. It wasn't solely because of that, IRL realisations were equally a part of it. Two Months later I return and everything has changed. Dan told me briefly why, but nothing on what happened so I don't have much information, but it looked like I was right. The storm hit and by the time I got back people had started to rebuild. People were happier in general, but I could see the weight Mike and Kev were under, and you, bringing atmospheres and people down. In the past 5 Months since I returned, I've come to care very much, even though I've still kept an outsider position. This caring is where I've found the energy for this the past 2 days Loog. This ain't about games, online or offline, or pyscho analysis for the sake of it. I'm psycho-analyzing 'cause thats where I see the problem embedded. Value-system disorder. You can pyscho-analyze me when I've upset enough people over time to justify it. And yes, I suffer from that disorder too. We all do. I'm working on mine. Ruby I wanted to show you what you were doing, and why. Whether we admit it or not, this TV screen has a solid place in all our experience. Experience is real. This is a real and serious issue. Honestly, It was this or leave you out of everything, which I was tempted to do, because I cringed at the idea of going through with this, but I couldn't do that against my conscience without trying to get through to you first. Then I considered leaving everything as it was, and doing nothing but I didn't want to do that. Leaving you out was not the right thing to do, I knew I had to talk to you and when I got angry I just acted, and once it was started, I had to continue.

This isn't BoP anymore, and it's not a court either. There is no judge, no jury, no witnesses, no rules. We're just people, saying whatever the hell we wanna say. And maybe I have crossed a line, but I don't care, 'cause the line ain't real. I have been struggling back and forth since InJ's release about just fucking off again. I wasn't THAT close with anyone. Then I had a short-but-great chat with Mike and Kev. Tom and I are becoming friends too the more we chat. This elevates to real life in just under 2 Months. I made my decision, it's all or nothing and I'm going all. I am done sitting on the edge. I'm gonna say whatever I feel is right and true and if I'm wrong, so be it. If people lose respect for me, think i'm wrong or generally dislike me, then that's their right. If everyone feels this way towards me then the truth will reveal itself in the outcome, and I will not be allowed to participate. The truth revealed itself with you too, but people couldn't push you out so they left. What I do know is I want everyone to connect again, and I want to build something new. The fact that people are considering it despite everything shows they want it too. I have made sure there is a chance for you to take a place with us. It's not up to me whether you get it, but it will be up to everyone whether you keep it. But let me assure you that if you do get it, and it comes to what it did last time, you're going to inevitably get kicked out. Whether you build rules in your head to make sure you keep yourself in check, disregard whatever I have said and continue like you are, address the root cause, or simply walk away. Its your choice dude but you'll have to pick one.

120 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Fri May 17, 2013 2:17 pm

Dictator

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Wild Ape
^ That post I can finally respect in this whole arguement.

121 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 29, 2013 9:23 am

Shadow

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Wild Ape
I've realized that using any character that isn't top tier is a waste of time, unless you're fighting a scrub. Top tiers just have too many good tools whilst the lower tiers have maybe one or two and even those are sometimes situational. Traits play a huge part and the game would be significantly different without them.

Hoping they balance the game, right now it's a mess.

Edit: Oh, and not to mention the dumbass online community.

122 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 29, 2013 10:04 pm

Dictator

avatar
Wild Ape
tell that to my bane

123 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Wed May 29, 2013 10:56 pm

munem939

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Going wild
Now now people... Lets just all be friends and say that IGAU has some good traits about it and some bad traits too ^^ Now... Now that THAT has been settled... Cookies for everyone!!! \( * o*)/ *Nom nom nom* :3

http://www.youtube.com/user/munem939

124 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Thu May 30, 2013 12:34 am

Shadow

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Wild Ape
Dictator wrote:tell that to my bane
Are you fighting randoms?

munem939 wrote:Now now people... Lets just all be friends
Stop perceiving every message as a way to start an argument. The thread is called 'Thoughts on Injustice', I gave my thoughts.

125 Re: Thoughts on Injustice on Thu May 30, 2013 12:51 pm

SUOMIPOIKA

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Going wild
Dictator wrote:tell that to my bane
if you played a superman that knows the MU your bane would get raped lol

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