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Predators mu discussion

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1 Predators mu discussion on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:33 pm

Taco

avatar
Wild Ape
Courtesy of Loogie:

Here is what I know about GREENDEX, played me with Lao vs My Sub. Very difficult MU for me. He won most of the games, but any other character he went to including kabal, I was winning if I recall correctly. He doesn't drop anything, and is heavy on using the mix ups with Lao, 2,4 low hat or 2,4 overhead. And that shit isn't punishable online. A lot of delayed kicks from his teleport too, he is very good. I think he even beats their leader ex360. So better watch out for him, he could pull out Lao or be using Kabal. Either way, it's gonna be tough.

Their leader uses the following chars, in order of ability he has with each I am listing them: Freddy, Cyrax, JC, Kenshi, Sonya. His most effective chars are Freddy and cyrax.

Freddy: He loves to zone, after a blocked projectile full screen he will do a hell spike. It's a frame trap. And he knows his char inside out. Lately he has improved his upclose game with Freddy, he is ending his bnbs with sweet dreams. And comes in with the 50/50, b2 or b3! After sweet dreams he is teleporting forward, so you can either roll out of the sweet dreams or use an armored move. BUT the boy actually thinks when using Freddy. He will not do it a second time when you punish it, so you got a game in your hands.

I could beat him with Sektor, and the reason for that is his huge hitbox in crouch state, so you have to take the game to him, and stick on him like glue.

And a general tip, he can AA and he doesn't jump a lot unless its a jump kick or a deep jk into combo.
If he has a bar of meter, be sure he will use on ex spike n wake up or teleports away if no meter. Be very careful of ex spikes, gets you when you try to jump if timed wrongly or if you try specials like teleport or advancing moves, the ex spike tracks opp anywhere on screen.

With cyrax:
He will have no mercy, does all the resets. He can take 90-100% with 2 bars, and don't think he won't do it online. He CAN. JUST DON'T GET CAUGHT IN HIS NETS.

After a net, he likes to throw another net by either moving a step forward or backward depending n his position on screen.

He makes the mistake of going on autopilot after a blocked poke. If he d1, it's cancelled to overhead buzz saw followed by mid bomb If he d4, he goes to 21 mix ups. Or 12 variations. Blocked or not he goes for these. After a blocked 21 he would go for command grab, it's constant he will attempt this after the 21. If the 21 hits then its a net and you're done my fellow bop comrade.

One more thing, to get in on you. He uses bomb then teleports behind.

The style he prefers is ZONING, rush down ain't his thing. He s working on those, and I think that's why he took up JC and Sonya lately. But with his two mains, he is not a good rusher for the aforementioned reasons.

The rest of his clan are mostly kabalists ... So be ready, maybe train against shadow for a few games and see how it's panning out.

One more thing, he hates fighting against Noob, Sektor, Kitana, because they could hurt him back in the zoning war and with good reads you can actually defeat his Freddy and cyrax with a counter zoning strategy.

Take the life lead and make him come to you, he is not good at it.

If he has the lead, you have a tough ride on your hands.

https://www.facebook.com/themixicanNL

2 Re: Predators mu discussion on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:40 pm

Loogie

avatar
Going wild
To avoid the command grab, just duck and full punish cyrax.

3 Re: Predators mu discussion on Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:10 pm

Shadow

avatar
Wild Ape
Loogie wrote:To avoid the command grab, just duck and full punish cyrax.

But if you guess wrong then it's a full combo for Cyrax.

4 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:22 am

Dictator

avatar
Wild Ape
Shadow wrote:
Loogie wrote:To avoid the command grab, just duck and full punish cyrax.

But if you guess wrong then it's a full combo for Cyrax.

depends on if youre stupid enough not to be 100% sure

5 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:50 am

Vjeekes

avatar
Wild Ape
Dictator Castro wrote:
Shadow wrote:
Loogie wrote:To avoid the command grab, just duck and full punish cyrax.

But if you guess wrong then it's a full combo for Cyrax.

depends on if youre stupid enough not to be 100% sure
how to be 100% sure? Even if the opponents uses patterns you re never sure.
Problem is that 1 punish of cyrax means your dead!!

http://devilapes.forumotion.com

6 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:26 am

Loogie

avatar
Going wild
I am explaining his patterns, and it depends on the match really. If you are low on health and need your comeback then it's not gonna be that big of a gamble anyway. Or if you have a breaker in hand you can afford to.
I know his patterns that's why I get him with my 12b1 every time he attempts the 21 into com grab. Coz I know what's coming next, if I was playing him the first time there is no way to know or even risk anything against cyrax and get caught in the net.

7 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:07 pm

Dictator

avatar
Wild Ape
being 100% sure is all about reading your opponent, something 99% in this clan dont do and have to learn to

everytime cimmerian comes offline i get to play his cyrax, i can tell when a command grab is coming, cyrax has too much safety in his string for someone not to be obvious about cutting them short or command grabing

he tried to disguise the command grab just like dan, 2 then command grab

8 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:55 pm

Shadow

avatar
Wild Ape
You can't be 100% sure though. A read is basically an educated guess. If reads were 100% sure, you'd never lose.

Intelligent players will change it up once it's countered, which just turns it into a mind game.

9 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:40 pm

Dan Bavian

avatar
To mention some of the options I try/should use: first check the opponent with 21Cgrab. If he dosent fall for it I will go for: 2Cgrab, 21net, 212, 12Cgrab, 121ragdoll, 12/21 d1saw cancel. If i get the Cgrab my follow up would be: jump in(without punch)Cgrab, jip, jip2Cgrab, jip21cgrab, 21net, jip d4-Cgrab/pressure/sawcancel, 334pressure, f2 mixups, 1 1 1 pressure, 121 exragdoll, and my newest one - 12d1sawcanel. Just make you guys aware of some of the options cyrax have for Cgrab pressure

10 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:23 pm

Dictator

avatar
Wild Ape
Shadow wrote:You can't be 100% sure though. A read is basically an educated guess. If reads were 100% sure, you'd never lose.

Intelligent players will change it up once it's countered, which just turns it into a mind game.
you can be 100% when youre playing round robin and see it working everytime when youre the only one who will duck punish it

11 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:27 pm

Dictator

avatar
Wild Ape
Dan Bavian wrote:To mention some of the options I try/should use: first check the opponent with 21Cgrab. If he dosent fall for it I will go for: 2Cgrab, 21net, 212, 12Cgrab, 121ragdoll, 12/21 d1saw cancel. If i get the Cgrab my follow up would be: jump in(without punch)Cgrab, jip, jip2Cgrab, jip21cgrab, 21net, jip d4-Cgrab/pressure/sawcancel, 334pressure, f2 mixups, 1 1 1 pressure, 121 exragdoll, and my newest one - 12d1sawcanel. Just make you guys aware of some of the options cyrax have for Cgrab pressure
334 pressure doesnt exist after a F2, its a justframe and noone online will ever do it

212 can be armoured through so be careful

ragdoll is -, why does noone realise that, the only reason people get away with it is because they overestimate the blockstun

your problem is that you adapt slow and always commit to what youre doing no matter what, you SHOULD take the jip because if your opponent isnt blocking so the grab whiffs you get a much easier hit confirm to a reset, if theyre not, noone is ever going to react fast enough to the command grab delay

12 d1 saw is stupid, dont use it, just finish the string to saw

12 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:30 pm

Dictator

avatar
Wild Ape
anyways, their leader is mediocre at best, has an idea of advanced spacing and fundamentals but cant adapt and is very predictable, beat him something like 5-2 on losing matchups vs freddy and cyrax with scorpion

13 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:25 pm

Dan Bavian

avatar
Dictator Castro wrote:
Dan Bavian wrote:To mention some of the options I try/should use: first check the opponent with 21Cgrab. If he dosent fall for it I will go for: 2Cgrab, 21net, 212, 12Cgrab, 121ragdoll, 12/21 d1saw cancel. If i get the Cgrab my follow up would be: jump in(without punch)Cgrab, jip, jip2Cgrab, jip21cgrab, 21net, jip d4-Cgrab/pressure/sawcancel, 334pressure, f2 mixups, 1 1 1 pressure, 121 exragdoll, and my newest one - 12d1sawcanel. Just make you guys aware of some of the options cyrax have for Cgrab pressure
334 pressure doesnt exist after a F2, its a justframe and noone online will ever do it

212 can be armoured through so be careful

ragdoll is -, why does noone realise that, the only reason people get away with it is because they overestimate the blockstun

your problem is that you adapt slow and always commit to what youre doing no matter what, you SHOULD take the jip because if your opponent isnt blocking so the grab whiffs you get a much easier hit confirm to a reset, if theyre not, noone is ever going to react fast enough to the command grab delay

12 d1 saw is stupid, dont use it, just finish the string to saw

I will agreed with you when comes to ragdoll and 212.
F2 is +11 on block, 334 is at 10frames on startup and gives +5 on block, wich I think is a significant blockstun.
What I noticed alot of people is trying to poke after 21/12(neutral on block) to avoid further pressure or commandgrabs, but following up d1 saw gives them a suprise of getting the 6f poke. And very few react to the d1 and get caught by the saw.

When comes to my gameplay its something i'm working on as anyone else. I was just trying show you guys what options to be aware of.



14 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:28 pm

Loogie

avatar
Going wild
Dictator Castro wrote:anyways, their leader is mediocre at best, has an idea of advanced spacing and fundamentals but cant adapt and is very predictable, beat him something like 5-2 on losing matchups vs freddy and cyrax with scorpion

He would look pretty mediocre if he used mid to low tier chars, but the guy is a tier whore and his chars can afford to make mistakes and still win.
And he has improved, and been improving lately. I don't think it's wise to underestimate their leader.

15 Re: Predators mu discussion on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:32 pm

Dan Bavian

avatar
Dictator Castro wrote:anyways, their leader is mediocre at best, has an idea of advanced spacing and fundamentals but cant adapt and is very predictable, beat him something like 5-2 on losing matchups vs freddy and cyrax with scorpion

Losing vs Scorp with Cyrax is pretty bad. High risk character vs Lethal punsiher.

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