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My Subzero Matchup Advice

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1 My Subzero Matchup Advice on Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:53 pm

Dictator

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Wild Ape
So here im gonna tell you how i play the matchups, will updat this later

2 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:15 pm

misskiss88

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awsome:)

3 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:41 am

Guest

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Guest
We start with MILEENA.

The matchup I believe is 5-5, whoever has the life lead controls the pace of the match, you can neutral crouch her sais so they don't do chip damage, you can D1 slide/ icebeam her EX telekick to sais to punish her, she has a hard time getting the lead back because there is NO way for her to safely get in, slow ass barely advancing strings, no chip, nada.

her only way to get in is via punishable specials and D4, clone eliminates the D4, only way she gets in now is if you become predictable, remember, your D4 is the fastest in the game, hers has a better reach but its useless if she cant get it out.

instant air sais are slideable, regular arent.

her mixups are the U4 overhead which on BLOCK is +9 giving her a free 42 that can be hit confirmed for full combo.

and B3 roll, B3 can not be hit confirmed to roll and U4 is slow as fuck, therefore you should block low everytime and you'll see the overhead coming.

her zoning aint great, she has no corner game, mediocre damage, no armour, slow ass normals and has to be very risky.

4 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:52 am

Edge

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Awesome. Now if only I could find a Mileena to beatdown- ERR I mean practice this on.. OH MIISSSS ; )

5 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:08 pm

Guest

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Guest
CYRAX

6-4 matchup IMO, you have to be on point and take advantage of everything he gives you, screw up once and you're probably dead, he can afford to make over thrice as many mistakes as you and still catch you in that one killer net.

You can slide the bombs on reaction but its the chest opening that youre reacting to, close range it doesnt matter because the net wont come out fast enough but if youre far away then the net will cut your dick and kill you.

the main problem is that cyrax can zone with bombs and net trades BUT he has very good tools close up, a command grab granting 15% and a free JIP out of which up to 8% chip damage can be accumulated, F2 which is +11 on block, 334 which is +5 on block, its a nightmare.

cyraxs standing 1 is 9f, your standing 2 is 9 as well, his d4 is slower than average but grants twice the advantage of yours, you cant armour out of the followup unless its a F2/Command grab

while enhanced iceball and ex slide will win all trades, youre using up meter, you NEED to be able to break whenever you get caught in a net.

both characters fight for the lead, both can turtle each other, close bombs are very similar to the ice clone, get the lead, get the fuck out, dont leave yourself meterless and youre good.

6 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:23 pm

Guest

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Guest
SEKTOR

IMO 5-5 matchup, my local sektor player Nikolass thinks its 6-4.

sektors main game is zoning, the missiles cannot be slided.

the straight missile is something you wanna trade with but this is only on a read, you cant react with iceball to them while sektor can iat your iceball on reaction and leave you with 30% less HP, 40 with 1 bar.

sektors strings are very good, 13 UM forces you to guess where the UM will land, B21 is a great poke, F2 is his best normal, advances a lot, is 0 on block and +5 on hit.

UMs you can slide on reaction, do it.

flamethrower on block can be slided even at max range, do it.

when you have the lead you wanna stay at 3/4 of the screen, at a range where you can punish UMs yet still neutral crouch straight missiles.

sektors EX tele is -7 on block, NOTHING will save him if he chooses not to block.

never throw an iceball further away from half screen, its suicide.

abuse your D4, his D3 reach is tiny, his D4 slow and his D1 non existent while all his strings bar B34 hit high

B34 this string has a huge hole between 3 and 4, while the 4 is being done crouch and d1, followup with 212 freeze combo.

clone smart and dont let him abuse his advancing moves, be wary of his standing 1 jab which comes out at 6f and does 38% meterless without from a jip but IMO you shouldnt ever be in his face at - in a range where his 12b1 string reaches you.

if you read a 12b1 neutral crouch 12 and 22 freeze before the b1 comes out

ex up missile does no chip but like all upmissiles is +30 on BLOCK, that means all of sektors strings can connect after an upmissile, even if theyre high, if you can, catch him with d4 right before it hits you, that way youll get hit but he wont be able to capitalise on it, otherwise, just block or armour through it with ex slide.

7 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:53 pm

Edge

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RUSRS wrote:
CYRAX

6-4 matchup IMO, you have to be on point and take advantage of everything he gives you, screw up once and you're probably dead, he can afford to make over thrice as many mistakes as you and still catch you in that one killer net.

You can slide the bombs on reaction but its the chest opening that youre reacting to, close range it doesnt matter because the net wont come out fast enough but if youre far away then the net will cut your dick and kill you.

the main problem is that cyrax can zone with bombs and net trades BUT he has very good tools close up, a command grab granting 15% and a free JIP out of which up to 8% chip damage can be accumulated, F2 which is +11 on block, 334 which is +5 on block, its a nightmare.

cyraxs standing 1 is 9f, your standing 2 is 9 as well, his d4 is slower than average but grants twice the advantage of yours, you cant armour out of the followup unless its a F2/Command grab

while enhanced iceball and ex slide will win all trades, youre using up meter, you NEED to be able to break whenever you get caught in a net.

both characters fight for the lead, both can turtle each other, close bombs are very similar to the ice clone, get the lead, get the fuck out, dont leave yourself meterless and youre good.

It's funny, I learnt half this shit from casuals today with a crazy Cyrax. IDC what anyone says, Cyrax outzones Sub. We played about 20 matches and for the first 5 I was fighting at 3/4 to full-screen, trying to punish his zoning with Ice blast. I got a few good reads but the reward from 1 metre is nothing, and alot of the time I was wasting it cause he read my read and knew when he was open for it. It's too risky trading ball for net, you can't afford to do it. Even on good read the best you'll get is an equal trade but he gets a free bomb on recovery before you can iceball again so really he wins. Worst case is you get netted and eat reset cuz he just about managed to block your ball in time.

When I started fighting at jump distance the whole fight turned around. In the poke game it was much more even. He knew his shiz about frames and counter-pokes and I learned about D4 abuse.From then on out every match could have gone either way. Whenever we had neutral health or he had the lead he was on the run, trying to zone and I was constantly keeping it at jump distance, trying to get in with D4, and pushing him to the corner. When I had the lead, that was the only time I could turtle. He couldn't zone me because while iceball wont beat his zoning, it shuts it down effectively enough that anything he could get on screen was easily avoided. Eventually he made mistakes and that's when Ice Blast really came into play. Then he started chasing me down when he realised HIS zoning was too risky, but clones and D4 blew him out. In total I think he won about 12 and me 8. It's as you say Rubz, all about getting the life lead.

Good stuff man, keep it coming.

Oh also B121 can be EX Slided if followed with JiP.. though the timing is very tight. I only attempt it if I don't have a breaker and cant afford to take a follow up.

8 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:15 pm

Dictator

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Wild Ape
thats because both command grab and f2 take more than the +18 a jip gives.

9 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:20 pm

Edge

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Qwark28 wrote:thats because both command grab and f2 take more than the +18 a jip gives.

Just realised I worded it wrong. I meant you can EX Slide the JiP after b121, so he has to dash up.

What is the exact frame window I have to EX slide the JiP after the command grab?

10 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:27 pm

Dictator

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Wild Ape
FlawlessZero- wrote:
Qwark28 wrote:thats because both command grab and f2 take more than the +18 a jip gives.

Just realised I worded it wrong. I meant you can EX Slide the JiP after b121, so he has to dash up.

What is the exact frame window I have to EX slide the JiP after the command grab?

no, thats purely online, offline its impossible.

atm playing, check cyraxs command grab frame data, anything above 19 can be armoured through

11 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:39 pm

Edge

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Qwark28 wrote:
FlawlessZero- wrote:
Qwark28 wrote:thats because both command grab and f2 take more than the +18 a jip gives.

Just realised I worded it wrong. I meant you can EX Slide the JiP after b121, so he has to dash up.

What is the exact frame window I have to EX slide the JiP after the command grab?

no, thats purely online, offline its impossible.

atm playing, check cyraxs command grab frame data, anything above 19 can be armoured through

How many frames does it take to execute a JiP? And is it standard for all chars?

12 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:48 pm

Dictator

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Wild Ape
31 and yes

you can find all frame data on test your might.

13 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:45 pm

Edge

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Qwark28 wrote:31 and yes

you can find all frame data on test your might.

Ok so B1212 is +34 on hit which is why I was able to slide them sometimes. If they delay the JiP even for an instant you can armour out. 3 frames between JiP execution and B1212 hit advantage is nothing. This is good to know:o

14 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:43 am

misskiss88

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RUSRS wrote:We start with MILEENA.

The matchup I believe is 5-5, whoever has the life lead controls the pace of the match, you can neutral crouch her sais so they don't do chip damage, you can D1 slide/ icebeam her EX telekick to sais to punish her, she has a hard time getting the lead back because there is NO way for her to safely get in, slow ass barely advancing strings, no chip, nada.

her only way to get in is via punishable specials and D4, clone eliminates the D4, only way she gets in now is if you become predictable, remember, your D4 is the fastest in the game, hers has a better reach but its useless if she cant get it out.

instant air sais are slideable, regular arent.

her mixups are the U4 overhead which on BLOCK is +9 giving her a free 42 that can be hit confirmed for full combo.

and B3 roll, B3 can not be hit confirmed to roll and U4 is slow as fuck, therefore you should block low everytime and you'll see the overhead coming.

her zoning aint great, she has no corner game, mediocre damage, no armour, slow ass normals and has to be very risky.
wow I can't do nothing;) But I believe that the match up is 6-4 in subs' favour:P

15 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:33 am

Shadow

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Wild Ape
misskiss88 wrote:wow I can't do nothing;)

Yaaaaay for double negatives ! (:

16 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:28 am

Loogie

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Going wild
RUSRS wrote:
CYRAX

6-4 matchup IMO, you have to be on point and take advantage of everything he gives you, screw up once and you're probably dead, he can afford to make over thrice as many mistakes as you and still catch you in that one killer net.

You can slide the bombs on reaction but its the chest opening that youre reacting to, close range it doesnt matter because the net wont come out fast enough but if youre far away then the net will cut your dick and kill you.

the main problem is that cyrax can zone with bombs and net trades BUT he has very good tools close up, a command grab granting 15% and a free JIP out of which up to 8% chip damage can be accumulated, F2 which is +11 on block, 334 which is +5 on block, its a nightmare.

cyraxs standing 1 is 9f, your standing 2 is 9 as well, his d4 is slower than average but grants twice the advantage of yours, you cant armour out of the followup unless its a F2/Command grab

while enhanced iceball and ex slide will win all trades, youre using up meter, you NEED to be able to break whenever you get caught in a net.

both characters fight for the lead, both can turtle each other, close bombs are very similar to the ice clone, get the lead, get the fuck out, dont leave yourself meterless and youre good.

6-4 to Sub?? that's a bit optimistic, don't you think?
for the sole fact that Cyrax CAN afford to make mistakes and be reckless sometimes and still take your hearlth bar away, whereas Sub has to be on point and flawless in all his gameplay, and make every right read - plus he will suffer to wrack up the damage makes it in Cyrax favor, by the time you catch the fucker he would have a breaker and you're fucked after that with a bomb setup!
i can only see this in Cyrax favor tbh

17 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:42 am

Shadow

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Wild Ape
^ I was going to write something similar, but I wasn't sure whether he meant 6-4 to Sub or Cyrax. Has to be 6-4 Cyrax. I also think Sektor is 6-4 to Sub.

Are you writing these based on your experience with each character? Or how the kommunity views it?

18 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:54 am

misskiss88

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Shadow wrote:
misskiss88 wrote:wow I can't do nothing;)

Yaaaaay for double negatives ! (:
oh Shadow u!Razz Lets take it all in swedish;)

19 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:09 am

Shadow

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Wild Ape
misskiss88 wrote:oh Shadow u!Razz Lets take it all in swedish;)

Du menar så här? ;D

20 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:10 am

Loogie

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Going wild
Shadow wrote:^ I was going to write something similar, but I wasn't sure whether he meant 6-4 to Sub or Cyrax. Has to be 6-4 Cyrax. I also think Sektor is 6-4 to Sub.

Are you writing these based on your experience with each character? Or how the kommunity views it?

my understanding of the matchup from Nikolaos was 6-4 to Sektor and not to Sub ... he gets zoned and trade is only possible off of a read!
its a hard match, i give it 4-6 in Sek favor.

21 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:12 am

Shadow

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Wild Ape
"Are you writing these based on your experience with each character? Or how the kommunity views it?"

This was for Qwark. (:

Sorry if I was unclear.

22 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:05 pm

Dictator

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Wild Ape
im only changing a few matchups compared to tom bradys matchup chart, specifically kung lao to 7-3

i also ofc meant its in favor of cyrax.

sektor is 5-5, nikolass only plays metzos's sub rarely

after 214 clone slide goes below missiles, the distance for sliding them is the same, from a range and on sektors missiles are slideable

ex slide destroys sektors zoning when subs back is near the corner

23 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:33 pm

Edge

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Yo Rubee, you planning on updating this anytime soon? A Lao MU would be really helpful :]

24 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:52 pm

Guest

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Guest
defo if people are actually interested.

lao is a bitch, tom brady says its 6-4 i say its 7-3, the only excuse he has for it not being 7-3 is that kabals MU is that number and kung lao doesnt compare

kung lao has insane mobility and gets in whenever he feels like it, roll on block is -5, unless he follows it up with a special then you can freely 224 clone his ass, low hat in -11 but completely safe online

the teleport has to be punished depending on the move

instant 3 is 0 on hit and block, on hit its 10%, HAS to be neutral ducked and whiff punished

late 3 hits neutral crouch and links to full combo with very good scaling, 40% meterless and 58% xray from it, punish with AA combo

a tele on a read can be backstepped and whiff punished, only on a read

standing 2 is 7 frames but hits mid, kung lao has to spin to establish an offensive threat seeing as every string of his can be poked other than b33 which is heavily - on block and never used

default block low vs him, remember he can spin between 21 spin 2\

ex teleport can be dealt with in many ways

A= jump back, every followup whiffs

B= step through him, if its an instant 3 you get full combo as it comes out the wrong way

C= characters with 8f- uppercuts can double uppercut for a 24% punish OR uppercut then backstep for 12% and full combo

F= Xray

212 deep jumpkick setup does not work

you have to carefully approach lao and punish his mistakes, you cannot risk anything vs him, his meterless damage is great, he can get past ice clone and build a lot of meter very fast

trade with low hats but don't throw out iceball as its punishable by late 3 on a read or instant 3 on reaction, or divekick

laos mixup string is 24 1+2 which is an overhead or low hat, the latter is punishable

after an F2 lao is left at +1, that +1 nets him a free 21 check, you can duck the 21 but you can't d1 back due to crouching taking 3 frames and d1 coming out in 6, you have to take it.

25 Re: My Subzero Matchup Advice on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:16 pm

Loogie

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Going wild
need matchup info on Sub vs Freddy, I know its a tough match but anything you can add is good.
my strategy for this match is to be patient, and once in stay in. trading might not be a bad idea but i cant see it happening, Freddy could block in time and Sub ends up eating the glove/fingers. in the corner, it will be game over for Freddy but have to be mindful of wakeup exhellspikes, that shit could catch you jumping out or in!

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